Comments on: Evolution: The Tear-Drinking Moths http://www.whyfaith.com/2007/01/17/evolution-the-tear-drinking-moths/ Please read, ponder & comment Tue, 07 Feb 2012 22:56:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Sarah http://www.whyfaith.com/2007/01/17/evolution-the-tear-drinking-moths/comment-page-1/#comment-37821 Sarah Wed, 28 Jul 2010 22:16:27 +0000 http://www.whyfaith.com/2007/01/17/evolution-the-tear-drinking-moths/#comment-37821 Well, murder for example. I don't believe in an afterlife, and therefore greatly value my short life here on Earth. I simply don't have the emotional coldness to take something I value so much away from someone else. And, with murder, there is a finite amount that can occur in a species before the very species becomes unstable. The murder rate cannot exceed the birth rate, or the species goes extinct. I'm a human with human emotions and human needs, social and physical, and my morality suits those needs accordingly. That's how morality works. Ant's have the hive think. They're cooperative and efficient. They know to bring food to the queen, to put the dead ants in one room and the eggs in another. In some regions of the world, a deadly parasitic fungus will infect an ant, and other ants will give their lives to carry the infected ant away from the colony. Ants know to follow orders. We actually have a lot in common with elephants. Did you know that grief, making music, art, play, altruism, use of tools, compassion and self-awareness are all thing elephants are capable of? Wolves have social hierarchies determined by fighting skill. Wolves are mostly monogamous, and wolves are highly territorial. I'm not sure what you mean by the same "kind". I'm not sure what other "kind" there would be. The moral decisions we make dependent on species(and by extension, intelligence), circumstance, and perspective. Well, murder for example. I don’t believe in an afterlife, and therefore greatly value my short life here on Earth. I simply don’t have the emotional coldness to take something I value so much away from someone else. And, with murder, there is a finite amount that can occur in a species before the very species becomes unstable. The murder rate cannot exceed the birth rate, or the species goes extinct.
I’m a human with human emotions and human needs, social and physical, and my morality suits those needs accordingly. That’s how morality works.
Ant’s have the hive think. They’re cooperative and efficient. They know to bring food to the queen, to put the dead ants in one room and the eggs in another. In some regions of the world, a deadly parasitic fungus will infect an ant, and other ants will give their lives to carry the infected ant away from the colony. Ants know to follow orders.
We actually have a lot in common with elephants. Did you know that grief, making music, art, play, altruism, use of tools, compassion and self-awareness are all thing elephants are capable of?
Wolves have social hierarchies determined by fighting skill. Wolves are mostly monogamous, and wolves are highly territorial.
I’m not sure what you mean by the same “kind”. I’m not sure what other “kind” there would be. The moral decisions we make dependent on species(and by extension, intelligence), circumstance, and perspective.

]]> By: Darren http://www.whyfaith.com/2007/01/17/evolution-the-tear-drinking-moths/comment-page-1/#comment-37817 Darren Wed, 28 Jul 2010 20:20:20 +0000 http://www.whyfaith.com/2007/01/17/evolution-the-tear-drinking-moths/#comment-37817 Hi Sarah, as I said in my post, I'm not against evolution per se, I just don't believe in it to the extent that I trust it beyond any doubt. Regarding the micro/macro distinction, I saw a <a href="http://truthbomb.blogspot.com/2010/07/are-terms-micro-evolution-and-macro.html" rel="nofollow">blog post here</a> on the topic a few days ago ... it isn't just an arbitrary distinction. But as you've said, it's not like I'm an expert in evolution or science in general. The last pure science course I took (not including computer science, math, psychology, etc) was grade 12 physics. That's why I took the time to link the items I listed to further information, if someone was interested in knowing more (Ex, evolution of sex.) Your comment raises some good questions though! You asked it rhetorically, but I wonder as an atheist, where do you get your morals from? I don't mean to suggest you do not generally behave in a moral way; the question is regarding foundations (ontology) not practice (pragmatism). Is there anything moral about an ant's actions, ie, is there any moral "oughtness" to what an ant does> Are the kind of moral decisions that humans make are of the same kind as ants, wolves, and elephants? Hi Sarah, as I said in my post, I’m not against evolution per se, I just don’t believe in it to the extent that I trust it beyond any doubt. Regarding the micro/macro distinction, I saw a blog post here on the topic a few days ago … it isn’t just an arbitrary distinction.

But as you’ve said, it’s not like I’m an expert in evolution or science in general. The last pure science course I took (not including computer science, math, psychology, etc) was grade 12 physics. That’s why I took the time to link the items I listed to further information, if someone was interested in knowing more (Ex, evolution of sex.)

Your comment raises some good questions though! You asked it rhetorically, but I wonder as an atheist, where do you get your morals from? I don’t mean to suggest you do not generally behave in a moral way; the question is regarding foundations (ontology) not practice (pragmatism). Is there anything moral about an ant’s actions, ie, is there any moral “oughtness” to what an ant does> Are the kind of moral decisions that humans make are of the same kind as ants, wolves, and elephants?

]]> By: Sarah http://www.whyfaith.com/2007/01/17/evolution-the-tear-drinking-moths/comment-page-1/#comment-37812 Sarah Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:05:14 +0000 http://www.whyfaith.com/2007/01/17/evolution-the-tear-drinking-moths/#comment-37812 Well first of all, you don't seem to know much about evolution. How can you believe in micro-evolution without believing in macro-evolution? Macro-evolution is just a lot of micro-evolution, to the point of speciation (the starting species and the evolved species are so different, they cannot interbreed). And, the theory of evolution never claims to explain abiogenesis; that's completely unrelated. Fossil records? You have to be kidding me. There are COUNTLESS fossil records indicating evolution. Not sure what you mean about the evolution of sex, but morality has always been there. Morality is categorized as a form of behavior. Look at an ant colony, look at a wolf pack, look at an elephant herd. They all have a set of morals. And it's not as if the bible explains morality. I'm an atheist, so where do I get my morals from? Think about it. Well first of all, you don’t seem to know much about evolution. How can you believe in micro-evolution without believing in macro-evolution? Macro-evolution is just a lot of micro-evolution, to the point of speciation (the starting species and the evolved species are so different, they cannot interbreed).
And, the theory of evolution never claims to explain abiogenesis; that’s completely unrelated.
Fossil records? You have to be kidding me. There are COUNTLESS fossil records indicating evolution.
Not sure what you mean about the evolution of sex, but morality has always been there. Morality is categorized as a form of behavior. Look at an ant colony, look at a wolf pack, look at an elephant herd. They all have a set of morals. And it’s not as if the bible explains morality. I’m an atheist, so where do I get my morals from? Think about it.

]]> By: Rayqua http://www.whyfaith.com/2007/01/17/evolution-the-tear-drinking-moths/comment-page-1/#comment-34511 Rayqua Fri, 22 Jan 2010 12:04:27 +0000 http://www.whyfaith.com/2007/01/17/evolution-the-tear-drinking-moths/#comment-34511 I wonder if Noah picked up a couple of these? I wonder if Noah picked up a couple of these?

]]> By: Computer Aid http://www.whyfaith.com/2007/01/17/evolution-the-tear-drinking-moths/comment-page-1/#comment-24393 Computer Aid Thu, 30 Oct 2008 11:56:45 +0000 http://www.whyfaith.com/2007/01/17/evolution-the-tear-drinking-moths/#comment-24393 Just because you or I cannot explain how these moths evolved, Its still highly probable that they did evolve. Possible explaniation are: - less likly to be eaten by predators - tears are a better source of nutrients - scarcity of water/nutrients means some moths will accidentally find alternative sources. After all, thats what science is all about: asking questions, take a guess at the answers, then try to prove the guess right (or wrong). Just because you or I cannot explain how these moths evolved, Its still highly probable that they did evolve.

Possible explaniation are:

- less likly to be eaten by predators

- tears are a better source of nutrients

- scarcity of water/nutrients means some moths will accidentally find alternative sources.

After all, thats what science is all about: asking questions, take a guess at the answers, then try to prove the guess right (or wrong).

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