Sat 10 Jul 2010
I was doing some research today on the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormon church) in preparation for teaching Sunday school this weekend [edit: now delayed to July 18] and the following hypothetical conversation played itself out in my head:
(Starred links lead to the source of the info, from the LDS website when possible)
Christian: Do Mormons believe the Bible?
Mormon: Yes, it is one of the four scriptures of the LDS Church, along with the Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price. As it says in our Articles of Faith #8: “We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly“
Christian: I have a question about that, but first, which translation of the Bible does the LDS church currently use?
Mormon: We use the Authorized King James Version (KJV).
Christian: You also mentioned the Book of Mormon. That was translated by Joseph Smith Jr, is that correct?
Mormon: Yes, the prophet Joseph Smith Jr translated the Book of Mormon. He “translated them by the gift and power of God”* from the “reformed Egyptian” language into English.
Christian: My understanding is that Joseph Smith Jr was the first president of the LDS church, and each president who has followed him is also a prophet?
Mormon: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has always been led by a prophet of God. These prophets also serve as Presidents of the Church.*
Christian: Are presidents of the church also translators, like Joseph Smith was?
Mormon: Yes, all of the presidents which followed our founder are likewise seers, revelators, translators, and prophets.*
Christian: So here’s the conundrum. The LDS church states that the Bible is the word of God only “as far as it is translated correctly.” This implies that some parts of the officially sanctioned Bible are not God’s word because it is translated incorrectly. (There would be no need for this caveat if it were not so.) If each president of the church has the capacity as a prophet and a translator, why have none of them (since Jospeh Smith Jr’s unfinished attempts included in the Pearl of Great Price) over the last 180 years, produced a fully accurate translation of the Bible, since in their capacity as a translator it would be entirely possible to do so? It seems that it’s not considered important to have a fully accurate translation, and therefore the LDS church gives lip-service to believing the Bible but seems quite unconcerned with its true teaching.
July 11th, 2010 at 11:30 pm
The rather obvious errors in the translation of the Bible do not detract from the substantial truths it contains. If you want more information, try contacting the Church directly or see our missionaries.
July 12th, 2010 at 12:44 am
Jim, thanks for taking the time to respond, but that doesn’t really answer the question. The question is why, if the Mormon Bible contains “rather obvious errors”, has not one of the presidents & prophets of the church (who are claimed to have the divine power of translation) sought to correct those errors in scripture in the last 180 years? If the Church isn’t concerned with having errors in its scriptures, I’m not sure I am interested in what they have to say.
I’m not claiming that other English translations of the Bible are free from error. There are some very good English translations (ESV, for example). None is “perfect” because any translation is necessarily interpretive, and translation decisions (ex, word-for-word vs word-for-thought) need to be made. They are still good enough to provide, at very least, the essentials of salvation … including even the KJV.
But the point I’m making here is that if I believed a certain person had the authority, power, etc to produce a perfect translation (or at least correct any obvious errors) but neglected/refused to do so, the only conclusion I could draw is that they didn’t consider it important to do so. Therefore, the LDS Church seems to, IMHO, not care much about the Bible.
July 12th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
As a member of the LDS for ovr 40yrs, I believe that I may shed a bit of light on what is meant by “Translated correctly”. The KJV translation is quite sufficent for use. While one would suspose that Joseph Smith meant that the translation was lacking in substance the reality is that it was not his intent. His attempt at an “Inspired Translation” was not to mean that it was a word for word translation of the Hebrew and Greek texts but rather an attempt to convey what he felt was the authors’ true intent. To answer why have none of the subsequient prophets chosen to finish or start a new translation; Church leaders have felt that The Book of Mormon and the other cannonized texts were able to provide a stucture that could be compared and contrast with the Bible in such a way that the intent would be made clear through this study. Church leaders have made personal and daily scripture study a frequent subject of focus for its members. It is widely held that through this study of all the cannon, including the KJV Bible, one can have the personal inspiration needed to not only understand but to put into practice the principles contained in them.
September 10th, 2010 at 11:28 am
It would be odd that a man given a translation, letter by letter, would copy errors from the KJV Bible into his masterwork, including calling God Jehovah (repeating a medieval error). And he failed miserably when translating Egyptian papyri. Of course he was unaware that one day the Rosetta Stone would be found.
September 12th, 2010 at 11:13 pm
Charlie, my friend, have you even read anything written or translated by the Prophet Joseph Smith? My advice to you, and anyone who happens to read this statement, is to read in 1 Corinthians chapter 2 verses 9-14. Ponder what Paul is saying here. It is good for all of us to understand these passages and internalize them. Then, my advice would be to study in your mind and in your heart a book called the Book of Mormon. The first of the ancient records translated by the hand of the Prophet Joseph. Obtain a copy and read pages 427- 430 and ponder about how the Lord Jesus Christ Himself visited the inhabitants of the Ancient Americas and ministered unto them. Ponder in your mind the significance of these passages. Then, after you have studied these things, go to your Heavenly Father in sincere prayer and ask Him in FAITH if what you have read and analyzed is not true. Go to the source of all knowledge and have faith that you will receive an answer to your prayers according to His will. He does answer prayers through the power of His Holy Spirit. He does love us and wants us to know the truth of all things. By the atonement of His Son, Jesus Christ, all mankind can be saved if we just follow Him in Faith. Jesus Christ lives. He is my Savior and I know with all of my heart that Joseph Smith was His faithful servant and prophet in these last days. Because of the work that was entrusted to that man I can find hope in a troubled world. Prophets do walk the earth today and DO receive the will and mind of the Lord for us today. My friends, trust in the Lord with all your heart and He will lead you on the right path. I found that path because I prayed to my Heavenly Father and He led me here. When God answers your own sincere prayers then you also can decide what path you want to follow. He will never force us to do anything that we don’t want to do.
September 14th, 2010 at 2:06 am
I wholeheartedly endorse what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 2:9-14. However the difficulty with letting your heart be your guide is that it’s entirely subjective.
You see after being challenged by a LDS church missionary to pray about Moroni 10:4, I asked sincerely if Joseph Smith is a prophet, and never received any special revelation that it is true. I “know in my heart” that Joseph Smith was not a prophet. Jared apparently received the opposite answer. A Muslim may give the same rationale for believing in Muhammad: “I feel that it is true.”
Now someone may claim at this point that I am “the man without the Spirit [who] does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him” as Paul said in v14. However, I could levy the same ad hominem attack against that person (though I wouldn’t do so) so such a claim would again cancel out; namecalling is not an argument.
When it comes to prophets, the apostle Paul advised people to “Test everything. Hold on to the good.” (1 Thes 5:21) This is good advice, especially since we need to be careful, because elsewhere Paul warns that “Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light” (2 Cor 11:14) and so given that, “Even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!” (Gal 1:8)
So my humble advice is to be wary of modern day prophets, test what they say, see if their actions match their words, and whether what they teach matches what God already revealed in the Bible.
November 3rd, 2010 at 7:45 pm
I have been a member for 17 years, since birth. as you can see, im only a teen, but after reading all these comments, i felt that you were being really biased. you had a really good reason to ask this question, but for further information, you can either pray in faith or ask the missionaries. i really felt that you didn’t really want to open up and understand but instead tried to kick us down and tried to prove us wrong. And yes, our prophet’s actions do match their words.
November 4th, 2010 at 1:43 am
Mai, I’m sorry to hear that you feel that way. I am “biased” in the sense that I do not currently believe that the LDS church and their associated unique beliefs are true. But if that’s the case, everyone is “biased” because everyone thinks what they believe is true, otherwise they wouldn’t believe it.
Before I became a Christian I investigated several faiths including Mormonism (see here) before making my decision. I have spoken with LDS missionaries and done my own research into the matter, for example, my essay on the Book of Abraham took considerable time and effort. I didn’t set out to prove the LDS church wrong, but if I see what I think is error I will try to correct it, the same way if a member of your church speaks what you see as being error, then someone should try to patiently correct them.
But I’m still open to being persuaded otherwise. After all, I was wrong for the first 22 years of my life when I was an atheist/agnostic, so I could be wrong again. How would you answer the question posed in the post?
December 25th, 2010 at 6:08 pm
Mai, I’m sorry to hear that you feel that way. I am “biased” in the sense that I do not currently believe that the LDS church and their associated unique beliefs are true. But if that’s the case, everyone is “biased” because everyone thinks what they believe is true, otherwise they wouldn’t believe it. Before I became a Christian I investigated several faiths including Mormonism (see here) before making my decision. I have spoken with LDS missionaries and done my own research into the matter, for example, my essay on the Book of Abraham took considerable time and effort. I didn’t set out to prove the LDS church wrong, but if I see what I think is error I will try to correct it, the same way if a member of your church speaks what you see as being error, then someone should try to patiently correct them. But I’m still open to being persuaded otherwise. After all, I was wrong for the first 22 years of my life when I was an atheist/agnostic, so I could be wrong again. How would you answer the question posed in the post?